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Msg ID: 2703750 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
9/15/2021 5:29:09 PM

I've been asked for my opinion by quite a few folks on last week's announcement that was posted here by New Egypt Speedway with the subject line:"HOLSTEN RACING FAILS POST RACE INSPECTION." 

While I'm somewhat flattered by people wanting to know what I think, the reality is that I don't have the technical expertise to really offer anything that I feel would really be of value, and at this point, I think we've all had enough "opinion."

Over the years, thanks to those introduced to me because of this website, and the folks I have met as a result of my employment opportunities over the past 40 years, I have met individuals who I respect not only because of their engine/technical expertise, but also because of their character.  From those I've met that without hesitation I am 100% confident in saying get high marks in each catagorySmile, I decided to reach out to two who I felt not only had the expertise needed, but who were removed from current short track racing/current day short track race teams.  The two that I narrowed it down to combined, have over 80 years experience in engine rebuilding/head rebuilding/high performance, with one owning his own Performance Shop for over 20 years in North Jersey, including years working with a SuperFlow flowbench.  Neither are in any way associated with the raceteams or the speedway involved, and in one case, even if told the name of the speedway/raceteams involved, they would not be familiar due to their experience mainly being away from circle track venues/in other performance arenas including drag racing and high performance marine applications.

For those that didn't see the original post, here is the information copied and pasted as it appeared on 9/9/2021 6:11:15 PM from New Egypt Speedway:  

HOLSTEN RACING FAILS POST RACE INSPECTION

Following a post-race inspection, due to a protest Saturday night September 4, 2021, the Rick Holsten owned #96 was found to have altered heads. As a result of the infraction, all points and money from the September 4, 2021 event will be forfeited. In addition, the team is suspended from any further points races for the 2021 campaign and they will lose an additional 100 points.

The heads were shipped to Brodix Cylinder Heads in Mena, Arkansas where the investigation found the heads to be altered to the degree which constituted an infraction of the NES rules.

 

A post followed on 9/11/2021 12:25:18PM from D.Wolfe-358 that included additional information that was cited as being sourced from Billy Pauch Jr's Facebook page that included a statement, and what appears to be a text(?) from Brodix.  For those who did not see that post, here it is (below) copied and pasted as originally posted:

Statement cited as being from Billy Pauch Jr Facebook Page:

As most of you were aware we were protested Saturday Night to pull our heads which we gladly did. This motor was a sealed motor by New Egypt's tech inspector. He specifically sealed it himself and no issues were had. When the heads came out they were sent out with no worries. We were notified late last night that there might be an issue. We contacted the individual who we had purchased the heads from and spoke to Brodix. Brodix informed us there was no mechanical advantage and that there was nothing done to the heads. The person who we bought the heads from told us that the guy who owns the track has purchased 3 sets of these heads as well. The owner of the track made the final decision and if they claim our heads are illegal, tracks better be pulling seals and sending heads to brodix after each race or we all aren't on a level playing field. We were very disappointed with how the situation was handled by ownership.
 
The following text(?) with the Brodix sign off was also provided:


 

I provided the above text (?) with the Brodix Inc. sign off to both individuals I mentioned above with years of experience in engine/head/performance work, because while I felt my opinion would be of no value, I decided regardless of their responses, I would respect both, and would relay them as directly as I could to those of you who have been following this story.  Specifically, I asked them to read the text, and let me know if based on that information, if they would conclude that it was possible for someone to have altered the head/heads in an intentional manner.  Here are their responses after reading the above text (with the Brodix signature):

Response From Engine Builder #1: 

Based on what appears to be a text comment/response from Brodix, it sure looks like what you would find after a valve job was performed, some scarring.  Such incidental markings are sometimes referred to in the industry as “bench scars.” As they said, “only a lightly touched the chamber on one side and the cutter touched the aluminum in a few places.”  If this was done deliberately to improve airflow, they would have had to machine each port or bowl identically/markings would be consistent from cylinder to cylinder and in both heads.  Since this was not noted by Brodix, then you would have to assume it was random scarring possibly from a previous valve job. Also, to gain enough air flow to make a difference in HP you would need to do a lot more port and bowl work to make any improvement. Why would the owner spend $30 or $40K on an engine have the track inspect and seal it then do something as small as what was found?  It would not make sense to do that.  In my experience, if someone is going to alter a spec/sealed component, they are not going to do so and face the potential of failing tech, unless the alterations performed would increase performance in a measurable manner.

 

Response from Engine Builder #2:

After reviewing the information that you provided (text from Brodix), the immediate question is was the difference noted in all cylinders/both heads?  Based on the info (in the text) the markings that were noted would have a miniscule effect (positive or quite possibly negative) even if it was present on all cylinders.  In my experience, I have seen marks like that on heads and view it as “overspray on a fender” meaning that although there was no intent, some paint ended up where it wasn’t supposed to go, and did so without consequence.  The marks could be from someone moving the cutter incorrectly (again, much like a painter who gets a little overspray on a nearby component.) For there to be any expectation in performance gains, you would need to go around the entire seat on each cylinder.  The marks noted in the text could be explained by the tool “kissing it” when it was being placed/set in its fixture.  An interesting and conclusive test would be to flow the heads against a set of “known good”.  Do the heads in question flow more?  Example, if the known good heads flow (potentially flow) 270 cfm at max lift, do the heads in question flow more?  Flowing two (2) cfm higher per cylinder, on an 8-cylinder engine would yield about 4 hp.  But as noted earlier, this type of gain could only be expected if the work that was done, was the same to each cylinder

Please note that the responses were requested and received individually, meaning that the two engine builders that I reached out to had no idea that I was reaching out to anyone else and/or what the response either would be.  They also do not know each other.

If additional written information, such as an actual lab report from Brodix/images of specific findings, I will be happy to provide it to the individuals who offered their responses above and will ask them to review any such new material as received. 

Until then, I respect and accept the expertise provided above by the non-affiliated engine builders in response to my request to review the text (with Brodix sign off) and to provide their thoughts.



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Msg ID: 2703849 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
9/16/2021 8:00:57 AM

Reply to: 2703750

Mike's Heads did the valve job. Mike is probably the most respected "heads guy" in the industry. Per an excellent AARN article, Mike explains his procedure, done by a CNC machine, and expalains what can happen. He was livid over the disqualification and called it a "witch hunt" against Billy Jr.

 



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Msg ID: 2703853 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:ED
9/16/2021 8:38:25 AM

Reply to: 2703849

I have no clue what a head, valve or CNC machine is, but that will not stop me from reaching a verdict: Pooch, Jr.--Not guilty (but don't want his case on a contingent fee basis); New Egypt--Not guilty by reason of insanity. XO



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Msg ID: 2703854 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:GeneS
9/16/2021 8:47:20 AM

Reply to: 2703853

Expofacto !



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Msg ID: 2703855 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Roger Laureno
9/16/2021 8:57:42 AM

Reply to: 2703849

My question is ; when Fred read the note from Gary Brotherton on what he found , why didn't he ask Gary to interpete his findings. The next reasonable question shoud have been something like this - " do these marks appear to be an attemp to gain a performance advantage or are they just the  result of someone doing a valve job and and nicking the aluminum with the cutter ? "

Some people gain knowledge over time by listening to people more knowledgeable  than them and asking questions when they  still don't understand . Some are too proud to admit they don't understand and remain ignorant forever.

This sounds like an invesigation in search of a crime, to me.



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Msg ID: 2703863 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:dfreeman
9/16/2021 9:46:16 AM

Reply to: 2703855

The more understanding and information on what is happening here, the more it seems to be a massive witch hunt.  And wny conduct one against a team who no doubt puts many paying customres in the stands 



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Msg ID: 2703932 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Freddy D
9/16/2021 1:50:32 PM

Reply to: 2703855

I wish I knew these racing secrets when I was doing valve jobs on my small blocks. Machine cuts and touch the aluminum in a few place. WOW! Maybe I would have won more features LOL.

Drivers win races not sloppy valve jobs, and Billy is a driver.



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Msg ID: 2703943 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:John Mc
9/16/2021 6:38:25 PM

Reply to: 2703932
Perfect response Fred!


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Msg ID: 2704163 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Howard Cronce
9/18/2021 4:10:45 PM

Reply to: 2703943

Hey John is this the first cyl head tech problems since "the Howie Cronce Heads" of 1977...No dport even when chevy stock BB heads had them...Man did they make some power..You were at Naz 1/2 mile when we won the 100 lap Arctic Freeze race..



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Msg ID: 2704174 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:John Mc
9/18/2021 5:34:20 PM

Reply to: 2704163
Sure was. Put 3/4 of a lap on the field in the last 20 laps.


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Msg ID: 2704338 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Howie Cronce
9/19/2021 9:15:36 PM

Reply to: 2704174

Yes lapped all but the top 5...Frankie was running 5th and he was next just a few car lengths ahead of me..I felt like Kenny weld when he killed them at Bridgeport a few years previous..Open show aluminum motor and no weight limit...Man was he fast....



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Msg ID: 2703874 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Engine Guy
9/16/2021 11:07:49 AM

Reply to: 2703849

Mikes heads (MBE) sells DIRT Spec heads that ARE UNDER COVER PORTED and they claim they flow a greater amount of air than Brodix as cast heads and they also claim the Port work WILL PASS TECH. If you want a set they will set you back about 3500 bucks for a pair of heads (compared to the price from brodix 1400 bucks a set) with out any valves and springs (bare head). There is a fair amount of gain when the chamber is cleaned up by a valve as it lets air flow be less turbulent. There is also power to be gained or lost by the valve job it self without touching the casting. The rule is pretty straight forward as to what you can do to the Spec Head...



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Msg ID: 2703976 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:kevvan
9/17/2021 7:13:36 AM

Reply to: 2703874

Undercover Porting - Brzezinski Racing Products (castheads.com)


Didn't know what undercover porting was so I looked it up.  Not sure if it applies to this situation but now I know what it is.

What is “UnderCover Porting”?           ;                           ;                           ;                     Brzezinski Racing Products developed “UnderCover Porting” back in the 1980’s when racers wanted more power but needed the ports to look stock. The goal of “Undercover Porting” is to improve airflow as much as possible while keeping the ports as stock appearing as possible. To achieve this goal, we perform flow bench research and development work on each type of cylinder head.

“UnderCover Ported” heads do not have the area below the valves blended and polished. Depending on the style of head, we may do some limited work in the “Bowl Area”. We can gain air flow with more extensive porting to this area, but it isn’t worth the risk of having the port  more visually modified. In essence, we only rework the areas that will improve air flow and can be effectively “covered-up”. Our SST Ported & CNC Sportsman Ported heads have these areas extensively reworked.

How much does “UnderCover Porting” help?

The heads required for many racing applications such as Vortec, Dart SS, Engine Quest 350I, Engine Quest Vortec, Double Hump and Open chamber heads were designed for street applications, or as street replacement heads, where the engine doesn’t see much over 4,000 rpm.  In a typical racing application, your engine will not be running under 4,000 rpm.  The difference from a stock set of heads to “UnderCover Ported” is huge, especially if the engine is running over 6,000 rpm.  The stock heads were just not designed to run this type of rpm.

Over the years, we have found that “UnderCover Ported” heads consistently produce 15 to 20 more horsepower than stock heads.  Sometimes this improvement is more in the 25 to 30 horsepower range, especially on heads that were designed for street use that are run on race cars.



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Msg ID: 2704012 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
9/17/2021 2:08:13 PM

Reply to: 2703976

Not real sure why the above two posts became part of this thread, but from all the information that has been made available, there is absolutely no discussion about "undercover porting"/other being offered as even a possibility for the disqualification, and it seems a little irresponsible to throw that subject into this discussion without clarifying that has not been alledged by anyone, but that's how message boards sometimes go....

Being a little confused by the last 2 posts, I reached out to the two engine building/high performance folks that I sited in my original post above with the Subject Line "Head Case", and both said that if they were given a set of heads to inspect, with the charge "determine if these heads have been altered", that such "undercover porting" could be detected even if acid coated to provide a rough finish to appear as if not tampered with.

I would invite anyone who is trying to confuse all things that one could do if they wanted to build an illegal "anything" with the very specific information that has been provided to date by New Egypt Speedway and via Billy Pauch Jr's Facebook page for the reason for New Egypt Speedway made their decision that the heads that were protested on 9/4 were altered.

If you want, feel free to start a new thread discussing all the things that are possible that one could do to an engine... to heads... to carburetors.... to intakes... to the chassis... to the fuel.... and so on, but don't piss in the middle of a thread that is trying to stick with the specifics about the reason why this disqualification happened.



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Msg ID: 2704042 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:kevvan
9/17/2021 5:19:44 PM

Reply to: 2704012

First to the topic relevance.

How did it become part of this thread?  Isn't it obvious?  If I step back and look at it without prejudice -ENGINE Guy appears to be sharing a related notion that even though heads look innocuous, it was possible that something else is going on.  Hence the point of raising the existence of 'UNDER COVER PORTED' into the discussion.   He was citing a fact that MBE did the heads after Kevin had provided that 'Mikes' did Billy's heads.  I am inferring that by the order of the posts when I came in and read the thread.

At the outset, I read this Under Cover Ported (UCP) thing and didn't understand it.  Why would I, I am not an engine guy. One could speculate his last sentence inferred something but I was more interested in learning what the context of UCP was and moved past that.

So I searched for it and found the reason that it might be relevant and thought the forum might be interested to know more so I posted a follow-on for others - you know desire to be helpful and no subterfuge in play.

At the core, is that not the charter of a discussion forum? To discuss the merit of a topic? For me personally, I had no intent to dissuade anyone or shape opinion and if I thought what I found wasn't relevant I would not have 'jacked the thread'.

Call me done.  This is the second time you have called out something like this where I thought I was contributing and apparently I am not savvy enough to know what is and isn't in bounds. By the way, ENGINE Guy wrote it, and I guess I am guilty by association.

To make it known.  I have huge respect and appreciation for the Pauch Family and think the whole thing was a dick move by the track.  

I won't wait for three strikes and you are out.   I'll sign off and become read-only from here on out.  Not going away mad, just going away.  

 



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Msg ID: 2704050 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
9/17/2021 5:31:25 PM

Reply to: 2704042

The info provided was very informative, but when it is presented in the middle of a thread that is about a very specific occurence, it is more than possible that some would think that the reason for the information being presented in this thread was to open that up as a possibility that it had something to do with the specific case.

One of the posts above stated, "Not sure if applies to this situation." 

That statement implies that you are raising it as a possibility, and with all the rumor/speculation that already has been offered, I made the decision, and stand by the decision to respond by saying that it does not belong in a thread where we are trying to avoid rumor/speculation.  The thread was my attempt at presenting what was provided publicly by the parties involved, and then providing the specific responses by the engine performance folks I referred to in the top thread.

I made that decision after getting a few calls that were essentially, "Why are those guys bringing that up in the middle of all this?"

Just trying to keep to what has been presented (by NES Mgt, Pauch Facebook) about this specific situation regarding the decision made on the heads pulled from competition on 9/4, and not looking to further confuse folks with unrelated "not sure if it applies" type of information.



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Msg ID: 2703866 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:readingrocketfan
9/16/2021 9:52:09 AM

Reply to: 2703750

I'm no gear nut but these two opinions make so much sense to me.



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Msg ID: 2703935 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:10SpeedBicycleRacer
9/16/2021 3:39:46 PM

Reply to: 2703750

Appreciate all the time you put into that "deep dive".   Thanks, 3W!



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Msg ID: 2703954 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:dnoldschool34
9/16/2021 7:55:54 PM

Reply to: 2703935
Hmm...someone works harder than the other guy and wins....the looser complains so we come up with some concocted rule and try to change the outcome of the race...where have I seen this before. And no Iam talking from experience,had it done to me in 85....didn't work though.


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Msg ID: 2704164 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Howie Cronce
9/18/2021 4:13:34 PM

Reply to: 2703954

Hey DN it was like that every week for us at Hickory with the Late Model...Tried to slow us down so the non-workers could keep up...Had to give it up before I lost it on someone...



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Msg ID: 2703947 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:Ssm1
9/16/2021 7:01:08 PM

Reply to: 2703750

Rumor on the street is that tech inspector that sealed it has since retired., can't be reached for comment. Hmm real fishy 



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Msg ID: 2703978 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
9/17/2021 8:28:40 AM

Reply to: 2703947

No rumor, George admitted in AARN that he was retiring and some of his comments about what went down with the track were not too kind.



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Msg ID: 2704100 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:SK
9/18/2021 5:34:38 AM

Reply to: 2703978
After reading the statements of 2 experts I see a not guilty verdict. A mistake was made. Rectify it with a SORRY, learn from it return the $ and points and move on.


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Msg ID: 2704138 "Head Case....." +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
9/18/2021 1:28:15 PM

Reply to: 2704100

Problem is, they missed the final week and lost the championship. Bad deal



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Msg ID: 2704207 "Head Case....." Howie +0/-0     
Author:dnoldschool34
9/18/2021 8:21:57 PM

Reply to: 2704138
However they tried three different ways to screw me over. This was the forth year in a row either me or my teammate won the championship.I finally told them I would see them in court and then it stopped. We won it fair and square and we didn't go to the banquet and and them to stick the trophy, all of this in the Micro Stocks for God sakes. I sold everything and built a car for Flemington. It.was ashame because of all the racing I did in twenty years in the sport I had the most fun on those little cars.


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