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Msg ID: 2722282 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:Double D fan
3/4/2022 11:10:34 AM

A while ago, I got into an argument with a friend about who was the best driver at Reading. I of course chose Kenny Brightbill. He on the other hand chose FRANKIE. Well after reading Frankie's book ( the Old Master ) thanks to Coastal 181, I might just have to eat my words. If Frankie had as many starts as Kenny had. and Reading would have paid enough to draw Frankie in, 135 wins might not be enough to be #1. (JMO)



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Msg ID: 2722290 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:paintman
3/4/2022 12:07:44 PM

Reply to: 2722282

It would be nice to do a comparison of the quality of cars attended at Frankie and Kenny's races.  My guess is Kenny ran against a far stronger field of cars on any given night. Hell for years we used to watch Frankie drive right past Flemington on a Saturday night and go to Middletown. Ever wonder why?



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Msg ID: 2722299 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:RuCu
3/4/2022 1:32:07 PM

Reply to: 2722290
Frankie was in his mid 40's when he won the Flemington Modified Championship in 1968 or 69. Flem was 5 to 10 years behind schedule with the old style wooden guardrailing inner and outer causing many flips. The cars were getting faster each year. He prob felt safer running Middletown as he got older. Besides, didn't he own the sausage bar right outside of the OCFS track?


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Msg ID: 2722373 The Old Master. Frankie’s Sausage Bar +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
3/5/2022 11:25:50 AM

Reply to: 2722299

Frankie didn't own it, they sponsored him.



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Msg ID: 2722380 The Old Master. Frankie’s Sausage Bar +0/-0     
Author:RuCu
3/5/2022 12:46:42 PM

Reply to: 2722373
Thanks Rick and mdracer, wasn't sure about the sausage bar.


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Msg ID: 2722300 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:Herb Yonkers
3/4/2022 1:43:03 PM

Reply to: 2722290

I don`t know typical Sat night at Middletown Will Cagle Rags Sonny Strupp Both Reutimans Ed Farley Bill Wilson Bottcher Balough Richie Eurich Whip Mulligan Pee Wee Griffin Bob Malzon and on and on



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Msg ID: 2722345 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:Mdracer
3/4/2022 10:53:04 PM

Reply to: 2722300

A lot of drivers will race where they feel they can win. And it may not be because of the competion. It may be because the track fits theiir driving style or cars set up better.  Some tracks are horsepower tracks and others handling tracks. The book is great but if you haven’t seen it you should get the video The Old Master its terrific too.  Frankie’s forte was handling, not horsepower.  He explains that in the video. There’s a possibility that Frankie may have received appearance money at Middletown?  No doubt a battle between Kenny and Frankie when they were in their prime would have been worth more then the admission price.

Both Were great. 

The sausage bar was not Frankie’s.



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Msg ID: 2722364 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:kevvan
3/5/2022 7:46:55 AM

Reply to: 2722290

Frank spoke about his choices in racing here and there when we hung out in the garage.  He said he liked the shape of the Nazareth and Orange County tracks as it suited his power band. 

His lament was that in later years he didn't have the horsepower that others had, and he used that to his advantage.  Others were trying to make more power and he was focusing on not overpowering the track and getting grip up off the corner... throughout the power band. 

He said that was how he always beat 'em, they were buzzing the tires while he was going by.

He coupled that with his comments that his cars never broke down due to maintenance and that he got through the turns better than anyone else and the pace he maintained in the corners carried over into straightaway speed.

He never spoke much about Flemington, but I suspect after watching races there that the momentum of the track did reward those with more power.

If anything I would also guess that we towed out to Nazareth all those Friday and Sunday nights in the 70s because of Frank's relationship with Jerry.



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Msg ID: 2722461 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:roboweld
3/7/2022 7:56:14 AM

Reply to: 2722364

Interesting discussion.  I always suspected that, since Flemington was NASCAR sanctioned until 1967 or 1968, that Frankie going to Middletown Saturday nights had to do with his fued with NASCAR.  I guess I was wrong.



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Msg ID: 2722512 The Old Master. +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
3/7/2022 7:21:20 PM

Reply to: 2722364

Great info.

I always thought that the chances of wrecking were higher at Flemington (not necessarily of one's own doing either....) and that was why Frankie didn't run there, but what has been offered makes a lot of sense.

Not suggesting that Frank was worried about geting hurt, but for anyone that raced for a living, thinking more in terms of getting hurt and missing races due to injury, and/or putting out time and $'s to repair another wrecked racecar would be something I would think would need to be avoided as much as possible. 

Were there many guys that raced for a living running Flemington in the late 60's early 70's?



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Msg ID: 2722515 Agreed, Joe. +0/-0     
Author:John Mc
3/7/2022 7:53:09 PM

Reply to: 2722512
I would agree that the competition at Middletown and Flemington was comparable and very difficult. I do think that the inside fence was part of the decision, in fact I had a conversation at one of the Pumpkin Runs a few years ago with Will Cagle and he had the same opinion. He said the problem was if something happened at Flemington it was more difficult to avoid, therefore harder for someone to race for a living.


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Msg ID: 2722551 Choice of Tracks +0/-0     
Author:Pee Wee Fan
3/8/2022 12:42:40 PM

Reply to: 2722515

I had heard that Cagle left East Windsor, Middletown and Nazareth, I believe mid 70s, and started to compete at various New York speedways.  The reason was the "New York" guys were behind the NJ-Pa competitors regarding race car technology.  For Cagle, he found New York to be easy pickins, as they say.  I believe Cagle's record at the NY tracks he chose to run supports this.  Makes sense for a man who makes his living at racing.  I'd say that Cagle's influence on his NY competition gave them incentive to "get better", and boy have they!.  Scott Ely



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Msg ID: 2723326 Choice of Tracks +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
3/15/2022 10:26:50 PM

Reply to: 2722551

I've often said that. When the competition caught up to him in Pa, NJ, he headed for NY. Accomplished both, won a lot of races and the competition up there stepped it up. 



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Msg ID: 2723343 Choice of Tracks +0/-0     
Author:RuCu
3/16/2022 9:27:38 AM

Reply to: 2723326
It would be in typical Wiley Will fashion for Cagle to have made a deal so that he was receiving perks from Donnelly (DIRT) in order to run in upstate NY back then. Possibly rent and food money and or free admission and appearance money


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