JUST CURIOUS--was that last lap move sun. a payback for 

something earlier ?? anybody know ??

if not , the EAGLES should consider 

signing logano as a punter this 

season !!!

blessings !! 

 hey, john mc ---my friend & mentor ,  the late bob emmons told me when i first started driving :

" it don't take any talent to run into somebody going into the corner -if ya' can't get em'  on the outside or underneath , it ain't yours " !!!

bill---------

If you have a good car and you are a good driver you pass the person infront of you clean. To bump and run to pass somebody, just means you are a inferior driver then the driver infront of you. If you won that way.  You really didn't win.  You really wern't the best of the best. 

I thought it was a good race until the Joey Logano circus came to town....

Bill Elliott's comment (who happened to be in the booth with for the final segment) was that it looked like a Legends Car move... meaning that it was so blatent, that it looked like something that you'd see at a smaller Legends event.  Some of you out there figured out by now that I may not know what I'm talking about, but I do respect Bill's reaction.

I'll go one step further and say that at most speedways, that blatent of a move (Logano punting William Byron directly in the rear going into turn 3 of the last lap wouldn't even have been accepted at a local track, and would have easily gotten him DQ'd.  Instead, he'll be the featured superstar of the week, being able to boast that he's now in the playoffs and all the other glory that comes with a win in what is supposed to represent the best drivers in the highest level of racing in the country.

How disappointing it must be those racers, who still have some level of respect for the sport... for the competition.... to reach that level, to have finally made it to the cup level, and to know that type of chicken shi+ move won't be penalized.... 

I don't blame Logano (he's demonstrated over the years that there's no mystery about what he is willing to do to win versus any sense of respect for honest competition/sportsmanship), but I do blame NASCAR for destroying the integrity of the competition, and of the sport... for allowing, and yes, rewarding that type of driving.

Bigger picture though, isn't NASCAR getting exactly what they want?  A week's worth of hype, and a season or more of video footage to hype their version of the "their" sport?  How many races this year have come down to someone knocking someone out of the way for the win (or at least attempting it).. and/or throwing a last minute block that usually end up in wrecking 1/4 of the field?   (Seems like with NASCAR, it's all good as long as it's captured on film for the next round of hype.)

That's what I get out of the whole thing.... It used to be "our sport"... and like an idiot, i keep tuning in thinking that I'll see "our sport" again and am disapponted once again.

It's hard to break a 50 year old habit, but they're making it a whole lot easier for folks like me.  I'm down to one cable box with DVR, and soon getting rid of that, so like many of you, I'll become another former diehard that will now be fine with waiting until I see on line on Sunday night who won.... or read about it later that week in AARN.

Hate to say it but all this "it's ok to wreck someone for the win" was started by Dale Sr. and it's been ok since. The worst is wasting an afternoon on the couch only to have that happen at the end.  It happens in every race and it's not fun to watch. Wish Nascar would grow a set and put an end to it , they are just settled on trying to appease everyone, so they never make a call. Oh well,  there's not much respect at the lower levels either because if it's ok at the upper levels than it must be ok at the lowers. 

Formula 1 (hooray for Max!) and the Phillies were on at the same time. 

Agree with you Kevin. i never watched a lot Nascar but in the eighties when I saw Dale Earnhardt do that, I thought if I ever did that  when I raced, I'd leave the track with my teeth missing. Because he was a great driver in the opinion many Nascar fans Nascar let it slide. Dale may have been a good driver but he was a dirty driver also. I remember they used to call it the bump and run.

Was rooting for Byron to win the race. Did not want to see Joey win after he rammed Byron in the rear. Was hoping Byron hooked the car to the left to take Joey out ! As soon as the checkered was thrown changed the channel. Imagine back in the 60's or early 70's Joey would of gotten his butt kicked. 

Another stupid thing was the 18 of Kyle cry baby Busch. Drive's his car into the pits to parks it when he couldn't turn the car between the gate. Instead of just stopping on the track for a wrecker close by to pick the car up. 

For the record. NASCAR did take a win from Ricky Rudd after he punted Davy Allison out of the way at Sonoma years ago. 

We must keep in mind that NASCAR is in the entertainment business not the sport of auto racing.

i like to dream up conspiracies. Chevrolet is dominating this year. Seven wins to Ford’s three and Toyota’s two.   They like parity. Just a thought. Lol.

they made a hero out of dale sr. for wrecking people. he wouldnt have qualified at reading.

Totally agree that Earnhardt started this.Logano has been doing it for years.Hate to see this happen to Byron.He is a clean driver with a ton of talent.Maybe Kenseth can come out of retirement and take care of business one more time lol.

HEY KEV--GOOD OBSERVATIONS  , ALL !!

WHERE IS BIG BILL FRANCE WHEN YA' NEED HIM ??!!

-----------bill-----------

I said this on anoter site ,, Why can Million dollar drivers can do this and but on short tracks you would be penalized for ROUGH RIDING

Kevin , I agree 100% with every word you said. 

What got me was with that big run he had it sure looked to me that he probably coulda passed em clean. Be sure paybax will happen before the season is over. I think Byron is already in the playoff 

That's where the play off system is bad, you used to have to watch your back after an incident like that, to protect your points. Now, once you win, it does'nt matter as much. Byron is in with two wins and now Joey with that win. I'm pretty sure Byron will get him a payback, but he's a good racer and a nice kid...unless he gets orders to do it.

Only good part, with the lack of parts and spare cars, wrecking someone really hurts the whole team. Chase Elliott blew a tire late in practice and wrecked hard. They were able to utilize the "only" Hendrick spare car brought to the track. Imagine that. One spare for four teams.

Don't think Nascar will ever do anything regarding the "bump and run", "I only wanted to move him" stuff that's pretty common.  How about this scenario, Lagano gets credit for the win and makes the playoffs.  BUT, he receives $-0-  purse money and get -0- points.  The points thing is probably more of a hit than the loss of purse money.  I was rooting for Bryon but I really thought Lagano could have got to the 24s inside and use 8 wheels instead of 4 on that last corner.   I think that would have been more acceptable than "the snowplow move" Lagano used.  Scott Ely

HEY,KEV --TIMES ARE TOUGH !!!

HAHAHA !!

BILL--------

sitting here wondering why on earth anybody bothers to watch this boring so called racing. i see more action at the collings wood traffic circle. i have not nor will i watch anytime soon its flat out a disgrace the product the put out now. but nascar laughs why? because here we are talking about it after you guys watched it.   

If in 2022... your favorite local driver... after watching him make his way up maybe from Sportsman to Modified over the past few years..., all of a sudden got a deal to finish out the remainder of the 2022 season in a top notch NASCAR cup ride, would you watch?

The point I was trying to make is that it is really a shame that so many drivers out there, on their way up... who probably at some point might of had visions of driving at the cup level... and then when they get there, it's a matter of who is willing to throw the most ill advised block (wrecking 1/4 of the field) or who is willing to punt the leader out of the way on the last set of corners to then take the win.... 

It's a shame that what shouldn't be and in many cases isn't tolerated at the local level (on the way up), is rewarded at what some would say is the top level.

Sad to say but I'm sure that all cup owners are probably re-evaluating their drivers and thinking that if any of their current drivers aren't willing to throw a wreck causing block, or not willing to punt a guy out of the way for the win, then they may need to look for someone else to fill the seat for 2023.

...Just another example of how far away Nascar cup overall is from where it once was.

Joe, I get what your trying to say. However, it's not like this doesn't happen at the local level. It happens at Grandview every Saturday night. Plus lets not forget guys like Pauch, Danny Johnson and Mowdown have made a living running over the top of other drivers. And don't even get me started on Gary Balough. I'm still a little salty about the time he harponed Ploski into the 4th turn wall at Flemington during the Scaeffer 100. Plus I still remember my family elders telling me stories about Cagle and Pee Wee.

Furthermore to say that this all got started with Earnhardt is just nonsense. I seem to remember Petty and Pearson running over the top of one another all the way through turns 3-4 at Daytona. It's also a well known fact that NASCAR wasn't even on the map until Donnie Allison and Cale Yarborough raped each other down the backstretch at Daytona in 1980. I'm also pretty sure Petty didn't win 200 races without running into someone a time or two. How about we also give honorable mention to guys like Bodine, Spencer, Waltrip, and Wallace? 

Wasn't it Waltrip that pulled of the infamous 3 ball in the side pocket move at North Wilkesboro. I seem to recall Waltrip was running 3rd and shoved Bodine into Earnhardt and both of them ended up in the wall, with Waltrip winning the race.

I think this type of racing we are now seeing is more a product of how valuable clean air is on the nose of the car, and the current points format, and the win your in the playoffs rule. We also have to remember that there's alot that goes on out on the track that none of us see during a TV broadcast. Only Joey and Byron know whats really going on.

Diclaimer: I am not a Joey fan. However, I do remember when he first came up to the cup level. Everybody including the jet drier ran over him for the first 5-6 years of his career. Mostly Tony Stewart!

Now that I think about it a little more.............

CD Coville didn't have a halo over his head either.

Thanks for the response Paintman -

To add a little more, I was at the 1976 Daytona 500, sitting in the tri-oval, and watched Pearson and Petty bounce off each other, and then both sliding down through the infield, with Pearson somehow able to keep the #21 moving, beating the #43 to the line, and to tell you the truth, I'm still not sure who was at fault, or if either were.

I was also there in '79 for Donny and Cale, although it was pretty tough to see way over there on the backstretch.  Looking at the replay, again... not sure who was at fault, and hard for me to compare that to what I saw this past Sunday, but I understand that some may want to put them both in the same bucket.

There has always been some examples in Nascar, and also some examples locally of some rough play... Pee Wee Griffin at East Windsor I think takig out Joe Kelly on a late 60's Sunday afternoon show... or Fred Orchard in the #66 during the mid 80's walling Billy Pauch to take one of the 4 twenties (?) at Flemington on the last corner of the last lap. 

In that case, Fred Orchard in the #66 got to keep the win - no penalty, so yup, it happens sometimes on a local level.  But I've attended quite a few races at Wall Stadium over the past 5 years and I can tell you that they absolutely will not put up with somebody running over someone else, without the offender going to the rear or in some cases set down for the night.  That message has gotten to the drivers and as a fan in the stands, the result is that they are still very agressive, but knowing that they have just as much to lose by taking out the guy in front of them seems to allow for some bumping, but no dumping, and for, it makes for a good show.

I think NASCAR needs to clarify what's acceptable and what isn't and then start giving out penalties, similar to how Indycar handles things.  I think it would make for a better show for those who are serious about the sport, although it may chase some of the smash and bang crowd way.

As Kevin said in a post above, I thought it was a big let down after watching Sunday's race to see it finish the way it did.  I'm pretty sure that all those folks booing Chuckles Logano in victory lane probably felt the same way, but to be honest, I don't think anybody is ripping up their season tickets over it. 

So again, back to the "tough question" for those who have sworn off watching Nascar/cup racing, if your favorite local driver got a top cup ride for the balance of 2022, would you start watching Nascar again, and what would be your expectation for him when it came to throwing the big block, or delivering a crash causing punt all in the name of getting to the checkered flag first?

WELL Joe, I can't answer that as I have been enjoying this CUP season. It has been very entertaining, to say the least. ( I still don't like the CHASE !!! )

I know Dale Sr. was not the first to wreck someone in NASCAR, but in the new era of TV and NASCAR, it sure seemed NASCAR turned their head to a lot that Dale did, because they saw the results in the popularity it gained after those incidents.  He's not all to blame of course, but the "bump and run" and the "rubbin's racing" stuff sure got rolling after his Bristol incidents in the height of NASCAR popularity.  Pointing him out was wrong on my part, but he was the first driver I thought of in this conversation.

Never wrong in calling out  "Big E". He certainly didn't start the trend, he just perfected it. 

The other thing i thought of that is causing all these shennanigans is how close they are racing these days. I know all the ole schoolers are gonna flame me but the truth of the matter is the racing is far better, closer and more competitive then it's ever been. 

To prove my point just go back and pick any NASCAR race from the 60's 70's 80's or even 90's and read the box score. Look at all the stats and then compare them to the races we have know.

Look at: 

Margin of victory

How many cars finished on the lead lap

How many lead changes.

How many cars failed to finish.

Theres no way you can tell me the racing was better back in the day. Simple fact of the matter is, they are all running basically spec kit cars. Then through in the areo crap, and you have a recipe for bump and run racing. Hell look at the restarts nowadays. they're basically on top of one another for the next 10-15 laps. 

Remember it's not only the lively hood of the driver but also his team and all the personel back at the shop that rely on his finishes as far as sponsoship $ and bonus money paid out to the team at the end of the year. If Joey hadn't of done what he did I am sure there would have been whisperings back at the Penske shop amongst the employees.

I'm in no way trying to defend what Joey or anyone esle is doing. I'm just saying it's far more complicated then the casual observer on the barker lounge knows.

If we didn't have this kind of stuff going on, not only would the team sponsorship dry up, but also the TV revenue.  

Got it DoubleDFan, but that's why I prefaced the question with " For those who have sworn off watching Nascar/cup racing."

Still don't think I've gotten an answer to that from anyone, but that's ok... just something to think about.

Kind of still looking for the answer to:  "For those who have sworn off watching Nascar/cup racing, if your favorite local driver got a top cup ride for the balance of 2022, would you start watching Nascar again, and what would be your expectation for him when it came to throwing the big block, or delivering a crash causing punt all in the name of getting to the checkered flag first?

I know the other week, I didn't enjoy watching Kyle Larson at Talladega throw a last minute block on Kurt Busch which triggered a big wreck coming to the checkered, and I think he is the best driver in the nation, in any type of racecar.  Tells me that with Nascar encouraging stuff like that, by never penalizing someone (unless they go below the double yellow line at some tracks) that even a driver that has that much talent is going to now have to make those desperation moves because at this point, it's expected... maybe even demanded.

And that's my gripe....  Seems to me that when a driver reaches that level of racing, driving talent and equipment/prep/set up should be what wins races, not the willingness to throw a wreck causing block, or punting a guy out of the way. 

I'm not a fan of it, and while I haven't sworn off anything, I am enjoying watching IndyCar qualifying and racing a whole lot more because I see that those in charge are letting the drivers race each other, while not putting up with any obvious BS.  (Saw on Saturday that Graham Rahil got penalized after running into the back of another competitor after not being able to brake quickly enough going into turn one on a wet Indy Road Course.)  I don't think it was intentional, but the bottom line was that his lack of car control at that moment caused the end of the day to the guy he hit.  I would think that type of response helps to keep things more in line for the series, unlike the free for all that NASCAR is currently encouraging.

That's the exact scenario for me, I watch because a close friend drives it, otherwise I would'nt commit to watching.  On throwing the block or wrecking someone for a win, I think my driver is better than that...but then again, ya never know!

My answer is do what you have to do to win. The whole reason to compete in any sport is to win, there  is no doubt that Nascar has rules against rough driving. Apparently  Nascar and their officials are not enforcing the rules, why because no drivers are getting hurt and there is no uproar from the drivers, owners and sponsors. They don't really care about the cost of the damage to the cars. 

This happens in all the pro sport leauges sometimes they look the other way, however when it comes to a players' safety normally they enforce those rules very strictly. Things like clipping, illegally hitting the quaterback and a pitcher throwing at a batters head in baseball.                                                                       

In the class  I raced, most of the guys owned their cars. The reason you intentionally didn't wreck anyone #1 it was the wrong thing to do and#2 you might wreck yourself and the expense and time to fix your car.

I tell people the exact same thing, the box scores prove it. Funny, you go through the whole conversation with proof and they somewhat agree and then say 'yea, but it was still better back then"!  rrrrrr