When Nascar crash tested the new car it was said by many that the car was too stiff and didn't give in a crash. Well it turns out the test dummies faired better then the drivers are and they are complaining that these are the hardest hits they ever taken. They are now using mouth guards for the drivers to measure g force in a crash. I figured we were being bs'deny Nascar when they said the test numbers were in the range they expected. So Kurt is out with head issues and no one is talking about what his black box said.  Maybe the next thing they will do is get the drivers to all wear yellow and black drivimg suits and helmets.

Edited by Moderator:  They did talk about the black box data. It was all over NASCAR satellite radio all day on the Wednesday after the race.  The initial tail end hit was measured at 26g's when the nose whipped around and hit, it was measured at 20 'gs.

Pretty sure your going to get a concusion when you hit that hard. Little E didn't hit that hard and he still got a concusion. Football players get concusions all th time and they don't hit helmets at 25g's. 

I would tend to think your going to get even more concusions with the HANS device. Think about it, you now stopped the head from moving forward to prevent breaking necks. Unfortunately when your your heads movement is limited, your brain still moves back and forth inside your skull. Solve one problem and create another.

Are there any links to the article that says drivers are now wearing mouth pieces? I have seen pretty much every winners circle interview this year when they climb out of the car. Not once have I noticed a mouth piece comming out of a drivers mouth. Wait I stand corrected. I think maybe Denny Hamlin wears one to protect the false teeth he already has from trying to play basketball with Jordan.

Certainly not enough flexibility in the chassis but Nascar has done a good job releasing data to the teams.Plenty of technology out there not to release it.

I edited your post. 

No need to direct your post/line of questioning to anyone.  You have some great points to make, and I'd appreciate it if you did so without it being confrontational. 

Yes drivers have received concussions since they got into a race car back in the day. However we cannot stop the brain from moving in the skull no matter how we paired move or restrain a drivers head. The other thing we need to consider is the fact that many drivers and I can name a few have transected there a order and a front impact crash we can't stop the heart from moving anymore than we can stop the brain from moving in the skull. One of the lessons learned back in the late 80s and 90s was by putting a kick up in the front frame and gave a crush zone that lessened the possibility of transecting the aorta they found the cars were simply too rigid I only hope that we don't have to go through that learning experience again  with the new car. The new car has been great for racing I'd like it I never thought I would say that however there's problems with it and NASCAR seems to be reluctant to address it to some extent if they did we were still wouldn't have wheels falling off the cars that seems to me to be an easy fix but that would make them look bad and that's something that NASCAR's top brass does not want to have happen.  Racing is inherently dangerous it always will be until the day we stop doing it however as advances come about we have mitigated a lot of those dangers and hopefully will continue to do so with an open mind and open eyes. I've series over my ears and racing to help develop safety issues and devices and the Racing is inherently dangerous it always will be until the day we stop doing it however as advances come about we have mitigated a lot of those dangers and hopefully will continue to do so with an open mind and open eyes. I've worked with different race series over my years in racing to help develop safety issues and devices and have found a reluctance to do so by many of the sanctioning bodies NASCAR in particular . As recently as two years ago I went to NASCAR with an idea that would reduce head injuries and they liked it. But then they turned around and said that they wanted the rights to and they wanted to own it and I was supposed to just give it to him because I'm a nice guy.  i've been involved in racing for over 30 years from the safety and the one thing that I found is there is a reluctance for people to try new things or to look at things as what they might be able to do the lesson injuries. There is that mindset that well it didn't happen to me when I was a kid I'm fine my kid doesn't need that helmet or no I've race for 30 years and I've never had a problem with the head injury so no I'm not gonna wear it or I'm not gonna do it. I love racing down anybody on the site everything that I don't however I see the need for improvement and unfortunately a lot of times whether it's me or someone else those improvements fall upon deaf ears either with the sanctioning bodies and the powers to be or the drivers them selves.  PS. Thanks Joe for the comment I don't come here to argue I don't come here to fight I share my views and my opinions like anyone else I appreciate this site as this is probably my last and only connection left the racing you do a great job as well as all the rest of the staff and I enjoy the dialogue with the drivers and car owners and fans to come to the site on a daily basis thanks again D

So we have Little E, Ricky Craven, Jerry Nadeu, Sam Ard, Steve Park, and Bobby Allison, all of who's career where ended by concussions. I'm pretty sure none of the were driving the NextGen car. Not to mention all of the concussions that  have gone un-diagnosed over the years, because it was always dismissed as just a head ache.. Concussions in NASCAR have been happening for a looooong time. Just like in the NFL.

Pretty sure he wasn't driving the NEXTGEN car for all 20 of these...........

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/nascar/a1706601/dale-earnhardt-jr-estimates-suffering-25-concussions-during-nascar-career/ 

Read dale Jr's book "Racing to the Finish" and you'll learn a lot about concussions. Dale was very proactive when he was finally able to grasp what was happening to him.

agreed , kev mc--we all know/knew at any level of racing , always was / is  dangerous then , and always will be --

when we all  race/raced , that was the last thing on our minds -- we had to qualify  for the feature , get the damn car to handle , find out what the engine miss was ,etc--danger was way,way down the priority  list !!!!

blessings !!

bill

Not trying to be confrontational at all. But when someone comes out and makes repeated blatant innacurate statements (probably knowingly), about NASCAR and suggesting some kind of a cover up, all of us should always call that person out. Especailly when its the same person over and over again. Once again today (2 weeks after the pocono race) Larry McReynolds on NASCAR radio talked about the data retrieved from the black box. So to go out and suggest some kind of cover up is just shamefully wrong!  Maybe I'm just the only one who really cares anymore. 

It just seems like everybody on this forum (one person in paticular), nowadays wants to bash NASCAR. And every other type of track or sanctioning body, instead of looking for some positives.

If it's not the car, it's the rough riding.

If it's not the rough riding it's the venue of the race

If it's not the venue it's the starting time.

Or heres the best one... Nascar racing just ain't what it used to be.

If it's not dust it's the car count.

If it's not the car count it's the grader

If it's not the grader it's the fact that all the cars look the same.

Blah blah blah blah blah 

At this time in the sports history racing needs all the support it can get. Instead it's own fan base wants to pile on along with the enemies of racing. Yes i said enemies. All of us had better open our eyes and see whats around the corner. Quite frankly with the new mellinial mind set, i'm suprised cancel culture hasn't already made a move to shut all of racing down. After all it is a carbon and racist spewing sport. Don't doubt me on this it's going to happen. It may not be NASCAR right away, but it will and is already happening at local tracks.

If someone really wants to bash NASCAR it should be because of the recent annoucment of the street course race in Chicago. I'll let you all ponder that last cryptic sentence and see if any of you can figure out what I am talking about.

If you can't make a point without calling someone out on the board, then don't post.

You are 100% welcome to tell us your point of view, but do so without it attacking someone else. 

It's easy...  Maybe start with, "Here's my thoughts on the subject...", and continue typing.  Don't tell people that its stupid to draw a conclusion that's different than yours (I deleted that part so no need to go back and look for it.)  Just tell us what you think and folks can determine who they agree with, or not, or most likely, they'll agree with a little of each/disagree with some too.

If you want to site a specific point made by somebody else, mention the point, and then provide your thoughts/info as to why you have a different opinion, and/or provide the information as to why you feel differently.  That's all great, as long as it doesn't become more of a personnal confrontation with another poster.

You mention Larry McReynolds, info provided on programs that many of us don't watch/listen too.  That's great stuff, but not when it is offered as ammunition as to why someone else post/comments shouldn't be considered.  If you've got better data/better inside info, all the more reason why that'll be good enough, without the personal jabs.

I don't have time to be a f'n referee and really have no patience for it as you can probably tell.  I know confrontation is good for site traffic, and that's how many social media platforms exist, but as I've said in the past, I don't care if there's only 3 people left on this board when I finally shut the lights off, as long as all 3 of us are still talking about racing, and all 3 are still all getting along (and remembering to embed when posting pictures!) 

I like the info you provided about concussions/safety, and also know that you have contributed to discussions in the past that have added to our board here, but just let us know what you think by providing the info related to the story, and know that the rest of us are smart enough to decide what makes sense.

As for what people like about racing and what they don't, I'm fine with folks providing either side (good/bad) if it is what they feel, and if they can do so without it being directed to those who disagree with the undercurrent that the author of a previous post must be stupid because they don't see things exactly as they do.

Hey Paintman, everything you said is true and backed by facts.Agree with you 100 percent.  Unfortunately many people speak without being able to backup what they say without any evidential truth.

Paintman, you are correct. I bash some things, then I step back and say "What am I doing, I love this sport". Problem is and we are all guilty of it at one time or another, like now, we used to talk to a couple buddies in the garage or wherever, and gripe about things and that was it. Two or three people heard my opinion. Now with all these open platforms for opinions, hundreds, maybe thousands hear it. Big reason I stay away from face book. I really don't want to hear the griping in the masses.

Follow up to the list provided above - Since it was said "seems like everybody on this forum nowadays wants to bash NASCAR", and since I still qualify as one of the guys on the forum, figured I'd clarify my thoughts (in blue below) for anyone interested:

If it's not the car (I like the new car, but didn't like how the announcers were blowing smoke up everyone's skirts before it ever came out, and then after the first few races... about how great it was, while overlooking the rear end suspension failures, the instant loss of control when there was a flat, and how the car needed to be towed when tires were flat.  Good news is I think most of those issues have been addressed.  I do like that it seemed to help the smaller teams catch up competitively overnight with the bigger team.)  

If it's not the rough riding (Not a fan of folks wrecking each other while Nascar looks the other way.  If it wouldn't be put up with at a local track, it shouldn't be put up with on the bigger stage.) it's the venue of the race

If it's not the venue (Didn't like the over the top marketing for the Coliseum, where it seemed to be deemed a major success before the event had been run, but I do like that Nascar is looking at smaller tracks/dirt tracks.  I like ovals better than road/street courses, whether Cup or Indycar, but I'll record/watch it either way.) 

It's the starting time.  (Changing the start of the Daytona 500 to a 4pm (had always been 12:15) bothered me back when I attended in person since we still had to get to the track around 7am for a good parking spot, so it made for a very long day, but I DVR the races now, so doesn't really matter what time they start as long as my DVR knows!)

Or heres the best one... Nascar racing just ain't what it used to be.  (Nascar racing is more competitive now than it has ever been.  I have my favorite drivers from back in the day, but it's hard to compare today's "product" with that of the 70's, 80's, 90's that really cemented me as a fan.  The lucky dog stuff... changes to determine a champion... pit lane penalties, etc chisel away at some of what the sport was to many, but from  track to track, and from lap to lap, there's no doubt that the racing is more competitive.)

If it's not dust  (Real dirt track fans know that "dust happens."  There have also been some unique situations.  Example: at OCFS this year was to the point that they had to stop mid show due to how dangerous the conditions were due to the dust.  It really put the track in a make it or break it position.  Hopefully, the new track prep team has a better handle and the worst days are in the past.  As for the other dirt tracks I've been to over the past few seasons, excessive dust hasn't been an issue.  I've also found that at some tracks, sitting up a few rows from the top, versus sitting in the bottom part of the stands can really make a difference in the dust experience!)

If it's not the car count (I'm amazed that with no crew/garage help available, and the cost of gas/diesel/other that car counts are as strong as they are in 2022.  At tracks where car count are an issue to the point where everybody qualifies for all divisions, I skip the warm ups and the heats, and show up in time for the features and get a solid 2 - 3 hours of in person racing enjoyment.  That works real well for me.)

It's the grader (I haven't seen a grader/track crew take longer than 20 minutes during intermission to resurface/spruce up things, so again, non-issue for me.)

If it's not the grader it's the fact that all the cars look the same.  (Cars looking all the same takes away a very important element that any of us who are over 50 always embraced and that was the uniqueness/ingenuity of the cars.  The toothpaste is out of the tube on this one.  Even at tracks that have a division where real bodies are used, 95% of them all run the same G Body platform (usually a Monte Carlo looking body), so as they say.... that ship has sailed.)

Thanks for the list - Good stuff.