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Msg ID: 2739356 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Kevin Mc
8/17/2022 5:23:16 AM
Talking to a buddy about the Larson/Sweet 410 mini series and how no Outlaws showed up. I mentioned to him how one time Flemington scheduled an open comp 410 show a day or two before the WoO was racing at Grandview or Bridgeport or somewhere. It went as expected and none of the WoO stars showed up and the car count was lackluster but that's about all I can recall. Can anyone here fill in the blanks on that show for me? It had to be around 1986 or 87 i think?


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Msg ID: 2739369 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
8/17/2022 10:22:35 AM

Reply to: 2739356

It was 1983. Swindell, Wolfgang, Allen, Lupo WoO drivers that showed up, a few Central Pa and URC cars. Swindell won, Wolfgang destroyed the Gambler 18 (described in detail in his book). The race was advertised as WoO, I believe even using WoO logo. Place was packed. To this day some people swear it was an Outlaw race, nobody ever questioned why Steve Kinser wasn't there.



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Msg ID: 2739371 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
8/17/2022 10:25:08 AM

Reply to: 2739356

For the record, WoO platinum members are barred from racing at tracks WoO doesn't race at.



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Msg ID: 2739381 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Kevin Mc
8/17/2022 11:10:54 AM

Reply to: 2739371
Good information Rick. I was pretty sure I was there but I remember the Wolfgang incident. I think he was ahead by a mile but still pouring on the coal and clipped the inner fence in turn 1 with his LF then shot across the track and hit the outside wall with everything else on the car.


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Msg ID: 2739382 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
8/17/2022 11:13:07 AM

Reply to: 2739381

I think he was running second, nobody touching Sammy. Crash started identical to Tobias crash, but due to wing no flip. To this day, hardest impact I ever saw.



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Msg ID: 2739399 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Greg Collins
8/17/2022 12:52:20 PM

Reply to: 2739382

 I was there with my wife, only time she went with me to Flemington. Sitting between turns on and two, saw it all unfold in front of us. Wolfgang was flying around that place that night.



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Msg ID: 2739400 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:stline04
8/17/2022 12:56:03 PM

Reply to: 2739382

I went to that show. Not sure if this was true or not.  I heard the State of NJ  wasn't going to allow the Outlaws run due to their cars firewalls were not up to State rules. Even heard that Paul Kuhl had some sheet metal fab guys in the pits ready to make cars conform to rules. But the outlaws who showed up said they run the cars the way they were and no ones changing the way they were. Again that was what i heard. Also sat in 1st turn. I remember Steve Smith Sr. coming out for warm ups with the Black Bandit sprinter. And was testing the middle of the track. Everyone in the bleachers was mumbling expecting a flipper since no one runs there and makes it thru the first turn short shoot. Then the green flag fell and everyone was amazed! Never seen cars run that fast at the square. Been a sprint car fan ever since!



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Msg ID: 2739385 Wolfgang June 5, 1983 crash at Flemington  +0/-0     
Author:Jack Kromer
8/17/2022 11:29:04 AM

Reply to: 2739356


Doug Wolfgang's hard crash at Flemington on June 5, 1983



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Msg ID: 2739468 Wolfgang June 5, 1983 crash at Flemington  +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
8/17/2022 9:07:33 PM

Reply to: 2739385

Thanks for the picture and time stamp to go with the story Jack.  If you look at the plane of the roll cage and the angle of both the front and back wheels, that car looks really twisted. 

It may have only taken one wrecker, but that's a candidate for our Double Pick Up section for sure. 

Glad Doug was ok.



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Msg ID: 2739402 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:13567
8/17/2022 1:26:48 PM

Reply to: 2739356

I thought the outlaws only made 1 appearance at Flemington due to the Fire wall issue. I thought the Outlaws were not allowed to race in NJ due to rules enforced by the State Police, but I could be wrong.



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Msg ID: 2739409 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:Harry Meeks Sr
8/17/2022 2:03:15 PM

Reply to: 2739356

I was there that day, and the memory of that day still goes on, it wasnt a world of outlaws show but I believe it was advertised as a Flemington Outlaw Sprint show, Sammy was on a rail, that was the fastest any driver had ever gone in the history of Flemington at that given time, Wolfgang wasnt far off in the Kenny Rodgers Gambler.  It was pretty much those two then everyone else, I recall 17 cars showed up, that hit by Wolfgang was pretty horrifying, the car came to a sudden stop impailed in the boards, I believe Doug talks about that wreck in his book and his experience at the Hunderton Hospital.

I still rember Sammy pulling in the pits with the Old Milwaukee hauler and being in awe of how beautiful it was, Raymond Beedle spared no cost in that set up.



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Msg ID: 2739428 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:JHLong
8/17/2022 6:02:54 PM

Reply to: 2739409

wasn't there also an issue with roll cage bar thickness the WOO specs didn't meet those of NJDOT?? I always thought that was the reason WOO never raced in Jersey....



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Msg ID: 2739466 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:redfred
8/17/2022 9:03:49 PM

Reply to: 2739428

If i remember right, there was also an issue of how the seats were installed in the cars with zeus buttons instead of bolts. Getting old here so maybe off on the years.

 



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Msg ID: 2739471 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:Frank A Jr.
8/17/2022 9:20:08 PM

Reply to: 2739356

To my knowledge, the World of Outlaws made 2 appearances at Flemington.

May 1989 won by Doug Wolfgang in the 8D

May 1990 I don't recall who won.



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Msg ID: 2739473 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:dnoldschool34
8/17/2022 9:52:54 PM

Reply to: 2739471

I seem to remember that it was a fuel line issue. state police said it had to braided and not just a rubber line running through the cockpit.



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Msg ID: 2739498 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:jac
8/18/2022 8:18:03 AM

Reply to: 2739473

weren't not having mufflers an issue for sprint cars in N.J.



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Msg ID: 2739502 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
8/18/2022 8:29:45 AM

Reply to: 2739473

I was there, first time seeing any type of Outlaw sprinter and it was a "holy shit" moment. Only saw pictures and read about these guys and they sure lived up to the hype and than some. The second "holy shit" moment there was the Super Modifieds on asphalt.



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Msg ID: 2739532 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:MH
8/18/2022 12:21:20 PM

Reply to: 2739502

I was at the Super Mod show, it was frightening.



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Msg ID: 2739546 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:Wojo
8/18/2022 2:44:21 PM

Reply to: 2739532
The super mod show was indeed scary.


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Msg ID: 2739533 WoO at Flemington... +0/-0     
Author:Sprint93
8/18/2022 12:27:13 PM

Reply to: 2739502

Have to agree with you Kevin.  Walked away from Modifieds after that night. Been sprint car racing ever since.



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Msg ID: 2739604 WoO and sprints in NJ +0/-0     
Author:Rick Shive
8/18/2022 10:28:29 PM

Reply to: 2739533

I'm curious if any of the NJ promoters actually inquired about a WoO race in the early days? I don't recall any talk about it until the aforementioned fake WoO race in 1983. I'll be honest, I heard all stories why the cars wouldn't pass NJ inspection, but not being into sprints until 1984, I never really noticed. I can't imagine there was much if anything safety wise keeping them away.

Somebody mentioned tubing thickness being a concern, but I don't recall there being a rule about that. I know one URC car that got destroyed (Allen chassis), the owner asked me to borrow a dial caliper to measure a broken piece of tubing in the front clip, it was .050" thick. So it wasn't just WoO cars that were lightweight.

Also, my second sprint, purchased from a former Lincoln champion, had the aluminum seat attached with 6 Dzus buttons, we replaced with bolts.

In 1985, our first trip to Bridgeport, NJ inspectors told us we had to run our rubber fuel lines outside the cockpit (injector pump runs off rear of cam) and cover the inside lines with steel braided sheathing. We felt it was more dangerous outside than inside, but we couldn't race until we changed it, 2 weeks before at Flemington, inspectors never looked at it.

The rear firewall issue I think was a 90s thing, not before 1987 when we stopped. It actually made no sense, seeing how the firewall wouldn't have kept fire or fuel out of the cockpit. 

WoO ran Flemington once in 1989, Wolfgang won, twice in 1990, Kinser and Swindell each won. Quite a few WoO races between Bridgeport and New Egypt. None at East Windsor.



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Msg ID: 2739505 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:raceasauruss
8/18/2022 8:41:05 AM

Reply to: 2739356

 A related unrelated issue occured at Bridgeport late nineties or early 2000's. An advertised Outlaw show by B-port was boycotted by Outlaw teams except Johnny Herrera who won the race.  It was still a pretty good full field of sprinters made up of Posse and a few others.  The powers that be at B-port did not send the deposit to Ted Johnson, so he pulled the plug.  The announcer at B-port offered refunds to those in attendance I'm guessing to avoid lawsuits or more embarrassment and to my surprise many spectators left. The place was packed



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Msg ID: 2739582 Who remembers a Flemington open comp "Outlaws" show? +0/-0     
Author:John Mc
8/18/2022 6:47:29 PM

Reply to: 2739356
I was there.


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