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Msg ID: 2784057 Greg & Kevin Mc +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
5/30/2023 11:11:49 AM

Your Indy observations?



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Msg ID: 2784061 Greg & Kevin Mc +0/-0     
Author:Kevin Mc
5/30/2023 12:16:03 PM

Reply to: 2784057
The three red flags were BULLS***! The red flag is for a severe incident or rain. It's not a tool to create a better ending. IMS has never looked better. Penske does nothing half way and it shows at Indy. Everything was tip top. We sat in turn 3. I sat there once before but I'm a turn 3 guy now. You can see over half the track in NEV and we watched drivers dive bombing other drivers into turn 3 all day long. Truly amazing to watch so much passing after sitting in turn 4 or turn 2 the past decade. They just run single file in 2 and 4. We are already making plans for 2024.


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Msg ID: 2784070 Indy Observations +0/-0     
Author:3-Wide
5/30/2023 3:08:11 PM

Reply to: 2784057

I'm not Kevin Mc or Greg C, but here's my Indy observations:

I watched Indy...  Boy did I watch it...  Greg C had gotten me wired in to watching ALL of the practice, qualifying, carb day, pitstop challenge.... and I watched it all thanks to it being on Peacock and available whenever I had time to watch. 

On raceday, I watched the pre-race and all of this year's race, although I have to admit that I fast forwarded whenever Danica was being featured (I can't explain it... I just don't like listening to her and I can think of 100 former Indycar racers that I'd rather listen to.)

I really enjoyed watching the race.  I thought the coverage was great, but two things I didn't like:

The first is the wheel and possibly part of an axle that through an absolute miracle, missed going into the crowd by what looked like less than 20'.  You can't protect against everything, but hopefully the current tether system they have can be improved (?) or the height of the catch fence (?) increased.  Like I said, you can't protect against every situation, but I'm sure there is something that can be learned from reviewing the incident, and hopefully some improvement will be made.  (I've sat in the section that was just missed (Southwest Vista I think it's called.)  I was sitting there when Sullivan did his spin and later went on to win.)

The other thing that I didn't like was the last red flag.  Nobody was on their roof... The track was not blocked... And in the probably 20+ hours of TV coverage starting a few weeks ago, that I have been a student of, the commentators (Lee Diffy, James Hinchcliffe, Townsend Bell, Marty Snider, Kevin Lee, Dave Burns, Dillon Welch...and you can add Mike Terico, Dale Jr and Steve DeHart, discussed almost every scenario of cars/drivers/track rules, etc., some numerous times... but you know what was never mentioned?  Nobody every mentioned that if a yellow flag situation occurred late in the race (or more specifically, as late as lap 196, meaning that as the leaders came back around and drove slowly through the area of the accident, and then crossed the starter's stand under yellow, (which would then be "3 to go"), that they would then go around, only to then be directed to the pits... where a red flag would be given..., and then more surprising (or more ridiculous depending on your outlook) is the cars would actually then would roll off pit lane, getting the two to go sign as they were rolling through the pits... and would then get the green and white the next time around.  My question is, when was that decided?

Sure it made for a more dramatic finish for those who don't give a rat's ass about tradition, and maybe it provided enough excitement for those who do consider themselves as traditionalists to look the other way just this once, but for me, it was a definite Jump the Shark moment, which is something I hoped I'd never see when it comes to the Indianapolis 500.

It was a cheap, desperate, over the top Nascar influenced move.  Most of all, it was disappointing.

I would be less disappointed if the scenario had been discussed any time before it happened as even a possibility (unnecessary red, followed by taking the two to go from pit lane, followed by the white and green next time around), regardless of how unlikely the scenario may have seemed.  I would also be less disappointed if it was something that was in writing, and had been shared with the competitors, the raceteams, and the media prior to the start of the event.  From where I sit, and from all the TV coverage I absorbed throughout the entire month of May... and from the way the commentators reacted, I don't think it did exist in writing/was shared in advance with anyone.

An amazing month of May at Indy... With the tradition, the respect to history, and the integrity that I've always felt that the Indianapolis 500 deserves...  Until lap 197.

Lucky Dog?....  An Indycar "Chase?"....  What's next?....

Maybe they can book Cypress Hill to sing Back Home Again in Indiana in 2024 in Nascar hasn't booked them already for Charlotte.



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Msg ID: 2784071 Greg & Kevin Mc +0/-0     
Author:Greg Collins
5/30/2023 3:12:11 PM

Reply to: 2784057

Pre-race traditions still put a lump in my throat, playing of taps always leaves me misty-eyed. I do miss Jim Nabors' rendition of Back Home Again in Indiana. Was thankful for a clean start, was concerned that bonzai moves throughout the field would cause problems. I'm a long-time Foyt Racing fan so was excited all day as Ferrucci ran with the lead group. Had Kirkwood's tire impacted in the stands . . . thankfully it did not. Had to feel for Felix, I believe he would have been there in the end. O'Ward is a super talent but still needs to learn patience. Neat that TK ran the full 500 miles, on that last lap dash he and Helio were battling for position, just like they've battled each other since their karting days. And, although it was extremely exciting racing following each of the three red flags, I agree with Kevin. Yes, ideally I want green flag running through to an exciting checkered flag finish, but don't want this to turn into a manufactured, NASCAR type deal. It's the Indy 500, not the 505 or the 510 or 515. As for the one-lap of green after coming immediately out of the pits, thankfully that didn't turn into a crashfest. Newgarden was on the move during the race, placed himself in a strong position in the latter stages, congrats to him. 

Less than 365 days until the 108th running. I'm ready.



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Msg ID: 2784080 Final Thought on 3rd Red Flag at Indy +0/-0     
Author:Greg Collins
5/30/2023 8:17:37 PM

Reply to: 2784071

Whoever was restarting first for that final green lap was a sitting duck . . . And whoever was restarting second was gonna draft by down the backstretch for the win. 



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Msg ID: 2784097 Final Thought on 3rd Red Flag at Indy +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
5/31/2023 8:52:08 AM

Reply to: 2784080

Thanks.   The red flags at Indy, creating a green/checkered, are pretty dangerous, but it played out. The last two reds were absolutely not necessary, put it in the rules other than at the discretion of the race director making the call...from channel three in Rogers radio.

2013 Thompson Speedway, for the Ice Breaker,  in the club house with Lenny Sammons and a young kid, very nice and very confident,  introduces himself and tells us how he is doing in racing and where he wants to be. We had no idea who he was and kind of said to him good luck and work hard, Santino Ferrucci.  So at the end of the race, was rooting for him, but was afraid he was going to be the guy to mess things up at the end, luckily fell asleep on the last restart and rode it out.  



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Msg ID: 2784129 Final Thought on 3rd Red Flag at Indy +0/-0     
Author:RuCu
5/31/2023 1:36:56 PM

Reply to: 2784097
Watched the Indy 500 Sunday. It looked like the fix was in for Foyt's car to win, then it turned out looking like the fix was in for Penske's car to win. I am old school, the race should have been a checkered/yellow finish after 500 miles. However, they have now set a precident for the future. Maybe make the race run 500 miles, only counting green flag laps. It would have been really interesting if they made the red flag stoppages an open red pit stop with tire, set up and aero changes.


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Msg ID: 2784142 Green flag laps.  +0/-0     
Author:Kevin Mc
5/31/2023 5:29:20 PM

Reply to: 2784129
Logistically impossible to count only green flag laps. This isn't NASCAR where some guy gets sent off to fill two dump cans after every pitstop. Each pit has a large drum filled with alcohol fuel. There's enough in there to go 500 miles. It would be nightmarish to send the fuel truck down pit road during the race to top off almost 3 dozen fuel rigs to get to the end if they end up running an absurd number of uncounted yellow laps. The 500 woukd also become a NASCAR race where it goes on for what seems like forever. Networks probably don't like being told nobody knows how large a block of their broadcast day will be needed to run 200 green flag laps. It's first car to complete 200 consecutive laps and it's worked that way just fine for 107 years. Leave the dumb gimmicks to NASCAR. We all have seen how well the format changes have been received by NASCAR Nation


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Msg ID: 2784144 Green flag laps.  +0/-0     
Author:RuCu
5/31/2023 6:17:56 PM

Reply to: 2784142
I agree with you KevinMc, I am old school, 500 miles and that's it. Indy Car opened a can of worms by doing what they did on Sunday. They will probably end up making up some new, arbirtary race procedure rules.


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Msg ID: 2784172 Green flag laps.  +0/-0     
Author:kjeyres
6/1/2023 8:14:07 AM

Reply to: 2784144

They "rigged" it to be only 500 miles though.  Could you imagine if Nascar threw reds at the end of each race instead of green white checkers? The race would end on Monday morning!



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Msg ID: 2784173 Green flag laps.  +0/-0     
Author:SteveWhitney
6/1/2023 8:15:37 AM

Reply to: 2784144

I actually lucked out by what happened on a selfish level.  We were returning from a week in Orlandp and I got to the house and turned on the TV just to see if the 500 was still on and it was.  Got to see the last lap.

With the way the leader heads right for the end of the pit road wall leading the "snake" out of turn 4, I wonder how long it will be before someone hits it!

Also lucked out that the 600 got rained out.  If it had run Sunday night there was NO WAY that I could have stayed awake for the whole thing!



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Msg ID: 2784222 Greg & Kevin Mc +0/-0     
Author:Kevin Mc
6/1/2023 6:23:53 PM

Reply to: 2784057
I just ordered tickets for 2024. That oughta tell ya something. Turn 3 again. North East Vista. It's a very underrated part of the track to sit. Every says Stand E is the best seats in the house but we saw the field exit turn 2 and could see them all the way around to the exit of turn 4. Plus entering 3 right in front of us is a prime passing zone. And there's a giant TV monitor directly across from us. I recommend NEV for anyone thinking of going. And you don't have to wait 40 years to get these seats like you do in the good areas of Stand E.


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