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Msg ID:
2844510 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:Frank A Jr.
5/28/2025 1:43:05 PM
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Why are they allowed to park it on the track, bringing out the yellow and then driving away?? Why do the sanctioning bodies not put a stop to it? They were doing this 30+ years ago when I was still in NJ and it continues today. Prior to the World Finals coming into existence, the Charlotte dirt track had the DIRT Mods. They were doing the same there and Humpy put a stop to it! Last night at the Action Track, I saw the 51 stop, draw the yellow and drive away. I turned it off and don't care to watch another dirt mod race.(You can throw in the ground pounders as well.) A new track is the only thing that would change my mind! This nonsense annoyed me 30+ years ago and happy to report I have not changed today!! |
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Msg ID:
2844515 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:kjeyres
5/28/2025 2:25:27 PM
Reply to: 2844510
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Come on Frank, it allows you time to get another Coors Light! Every division in America does it. It's bad when a guy gets a flat and is a non factor in the race and it screws up the race, other then that, it's gonna happen. One push for the dirt cars is, no mirrors-no spotters makes it difficult to exit, where asphalt has no excuse. |
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Msg ID:
2844517 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:3-Wide
5/28/2025 2:43:01 PM
Reply to: 2844510
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The short answer is because car counts are an issue (and have been for a while), promoters are afraid to tell drivers/race teams "sorry 'bout your luck" for fear that the team will pack up and race elsewhere. They do the same thing at the one and only asphalt track that I've attended in the past few years, and I hate it there too. I've seen many great side by side battles for the lead ended because the guy running 17th decided he needed a caution, so he pulled up to the outside and slowed, and then headed to the pits as soon as the yellow was waved. Of course they then hold up the show for 3 laps until the guy that stopped the show can rejoin..... The show suffers, but there's no downside to the guy that brought out the yellow. (Often, once they go green, the guy that brought out the yellow pulls off after a lap or two anyhow....) I've been on the other side of this for the brief time back in the late 80's/early 90's when I was on a crew, and for selfish reasons, probably would have loved having the option of bringing out the yellow to stop the action so that an adjustment could be made, or something could be checked. But back then, no individual driver/race team thought that they were more important than "THE SHOW", and realized that "THE SHOW" was more important than their individual situation. I can remember a high profile driver (who I like by the way) about 20 years ago at New Egypt... slowing intentionally in turn 2 to bring out the caution, and the yellow had to eventually came out, but they went green right away once he hit the pits, so while it did interrupt things, the driver/race team did not benefit from it, and it did deter repeat performances from everyone else. I also remember that driver/team being pissed off, but that was back when there were 40+ modifieds, and 60+ sportsman.... and probably 30+ Super Stocks, and tracks were willing to do the right thing for the good of the overall show, and the integrity of the show. Nobody likes to see their favorite driver get a flat... or something else, but it was always part of the game... How many features did guys not win, or championships lost because a driver pulled into the infield instead of stopping on the track, and then headed to the pits? Maybe it's an indication of just the way the world has gone in a larger scale... with bending rules to make sure nobody's feelings are hurt, and making sure nobody gets upset. Seems telling somebody "NO" isn't as easy as saying..."sure.. no problem... do whatever you want..." It's also one of the reason why the show isn't as compelling as it used to be. There is so much downtime/interruptions during features, that absolutely kill any momentum that the race may have had. With car counts getting lower and lower each year, it will only get worse. |
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Msg ID:
2844535 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:Frank A Jr.
5/28/2025 8:23:42 PM
Reply to: 2844510
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At least humor me and don't make it so obvious. Waste more time and sit there so have a push truck gets you. Perhaps because I first really noticed it with the dirt mods years ago, but it just seems to be prevalent with those guys. Another useless yellow is when a Sprint Car does a 360 and keeps going. I think this practice started with the All Stars. Why? I don't recall any major issue that would have triggered this to become the norm. I guess I'm just a grumpy old guy who should really care less given the number of races I attend these days... |
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Msg ID:
2844575 |
Putting on my officials hat.... +0/-0
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Author:Kevin Mc
5/29/2025 6:00:55 PM
Reply to: 2844510
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My current race director says the fans come to see more not fewer race cars so he likes to give a little leeway to any teams that encounter some dumb racing luck. I'm ok either way but i understand his thinking.
When the same director arrived on the scene with our smallish sprint tour he outlawed 360s for safety reasons. If you're sideways we go yellow. Its cool to see and some drivers can pull it off. Others cannot and will take someone else out instead of completing the 360.
Hope that helps.
KMc. |
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Msg ID:
2844584 |
Putting on my spectators hat..... +0/-0
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Author:3-Wide
5/29/2025 9:02:52 PM
Reply to: 2844575
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I hear you Kevin, but when is the last time your race director friend paid $20 and sat in the spectator stands for the entire night of racing? You're a good guy to have this discussion with because I know you work as an official and a flagger, but I also am pretty sure that you still take in a few shows from the cheap seats as a spectator at a few local tracks on occasion, so you know both sides of the fence.... My point is, yea... I get it... Not enough cars... and you end up with not enough show! But on the other hand, with folks having a lot of other alternatives to getting their weekly racing fix, somebody better have an eye on the show, from beginning to end... and make sure that it's still worth driving to, paying for, and sitting in the stands in person as a spectator. I've been going to races for quite a while and the one thing that I know for sure is that none of the local tracks that I go to actually have someone on staff with a clipboard (or a phone that they can capture notes on) on race night, from beginning to end, whose one and only job is to sit in the stands, without a headset... without a walkie-talkie.... without other staff sitting near them... without getting up and doing busy work, without strolling through the pits.... probably only getting up as a race fan might, to hit the concessions stand (as a paying customer) and to maybe hit the restroom before heading back to their seat - as a fan... again... capturing more notes... so that those "notes" could then be be reviewed that week with other staff, so that improvements can be made where needed. Yea... there's usually someone running around, looking busy because they probably are... talking on their walkie-talkie, zipping arouind in a golf kart headed somewhere.... taking care of something that needed to be taken care of... But name the person at any local track, on staff that is taking in the show from beginning to end, experiencing it as a fan, and then reporting their findings? Nobody "eats their own cooking".... meaning promoters/others put all the effort into putting on the show, but they really have no way of knowing, did the fans get a good show overall? Did the many interruptions and delays make it a choppy show, with no momentum, making for a crappy in person experience, or did the show have a flow to it that kept folks engaged and maybe... just maybe... excited to come back next week? Had tracks done this over the past decade or so, the sport would still have challenges (too many to list here, and most out of a promoter's control....) But I think the sport would be a lot more healthier than it is... I think there would be more fans in the spectator stands if tracks thought it was important enough to see how the complete show experience really was, followed by making adjustments for improvement for the next week, and the next... and the next..., rather than hoping that it was a good show (but not really ever knowing) and then wondering, "Where did all the people go?.... |
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Msg ID:
2844592 |
Putting on my spectators hat..... +0/-0
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Author:Kevin Mc
5/30/2025 5:35:37 AM
Reply to: 2844584
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I can't disagree with you. Without going back to read my earlier comment I believe I said I see both sides of the coin. You have to walk a fine line. I wonder if any promoter has ever hired a secret shopper ( I think that's what they call them) to come in as a random anonymous fan to show up and just watch. It could be eye-opening
For what it's worth we run our events off as quickly and efficiently as possible since we are always the guests in someone else's "house".
We always give our guys five laps per session in hot laps which adds a minute or two to the evenings show. But it gives the fans a little appetizer for whats coming as we are typically 2-3 seconds per lap faster than any local class. Also it was my suggestion several years back to bump it to five laps instead of the usual 2 or 3 just to let our drivers have a bonus moment of fun as some of them travel 4, 5 or 6 hours to race with us. Does it add a minute or two to the whole show? Yes. Does it also enhance the show? I believe it does.
As for giving someone an extra lap or 30 seconds under caution, it goes back to what I said about more cars on the track gives the fans a better show. We are not the Outlaws. Nobody is going to be swapping out a front axel in 90 seconds. But if they're fighting to get a new nose wing on to get back out there we'll give them the benefit of the doubt for half a minute.
Its a fine line. 🙂
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Msg ID:
2844595 |
Putting on my spectators hat..... +0/-0
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Author:3-Wide
5/30/2025 8:31:14 AM
Reply to: 2844592
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Agreed Kevin... and I know you are one of the few that can see both sides with your experience as an official and also as a fan. Both sides of the coin definitely need to be considered as you don't have a show without cars, but you also can't run the show without any unaffiliated fans (those who are there to see a race, not those that just showed up because their brother in law is running a 4 cylinder that night, etc.,.) You need people that are there consistently, just to see "the show" and you need "the show" to be compelling enough that folks want to come back again, and again. I'm just saying that both sides need to be considered, and I like I said, I don't know of any track that puts in the effort to evaluate their entire show from a spectator side fan's perspective and adjust as needed. With so many other options available (FLO, YouTube, other), show pace and show momentum should be a priority, instead of "look at me yellows".... followed by let's wait a few laps to see if they're fixing the car or putting the tools away for the night... and other show killer moments like let's wait to roll off the next event because there's still a few cars that haven't wandered there way out to the track yet even though the rest of the field managed to do so (followed by the late guy still being able to take his original starting spot....,) or let's take a few more laps under yellow because the guy in 15th belongs in 14th and they can't seem to figure it out themselves.. or a few more laps because the officials are cue'ing up the video to see if there was "OVER AGGRESSIVE DRIVING... or, let's take ANOTHER break to do some track maintenance.... and a new one that seems to be gaining in popularity, let's pause the program so that another driver take can take some solo laps right in the middle of the show to see if his car is running to their satisfaction or to shake down a back up car. |
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Msg ID:
2844593 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:John Mc
5/30/2025 6:37:02 AM
Reply to: 2844510
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Don't even get me started. What really chapped my ass was stopping just short of the gate, waiting for the yellow then darting into the pits. It was then I turned to the scorers and said "get that lineup NOW, we're going green! |
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Msg ID:
2844599 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:kjeyres
5/30/2025 9:22:19 AM
Reply to: 2844593
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That's the worse one John. "Done for the night!" Joe's right, it comes down lack of cars, so you "kind of" have to take care of the few you have as a race director and the promoter. Some guys take blatant advantage of it and they are usually the "pain in the ass guy" at a track and all tracks have them. I've said for a long time, put a Mulligan list on the wall. Check off when a guy gets a flat or damage and you get one a year. It will probably equal out amongst everyone through the year. It's usually the same three or four guys that have the problems and they are usually mid-pack or back markers that cause it. |
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Msg ID:
2844653 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:John Mc
5/31/2025 10:07:29 AM
Reply to: 2844599
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100% correct Kevin but I had a note pad. I get the notion you need racers to put on a show but it made me nuts when some guy running 15th with 5 laps to go would pull that. Try standing in that tower and have all these fans turning around looking at you with that "wtf!" look on their faces. |
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Msg ID:
2844659 |
What's Up With These Dirt Modifieds??? +0/-0
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Author:Frank A Jr.
5/31/2025 11:00:56 AM
Reply to: 2844510
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If there is damage to a car, you have them limping around. A caution should be thrown. I good with giving them a few minutes in an attempt to make repairs. However, if you park it to draw a caution and drive away once displayed, you're done for the remainder of that event. Low car counts or not. If you're in the Street Stock class and X track is 15 minutes from your house, are you now going to drive an hour to Y track?? If you do, are friends and family going to follow you there? |
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